As a follow up to my post regarding shooting planes, Derek Cohen brought to my attention the #52 shooting board once made by Stanley. 10. It is still one heck of a sled. Then take a plane iron and using it as a scraper remove the dark areas. Oct 22, 2020Wear Strips Standard UHMW runners for less ice build-up, with heater strips Drying belt is broken down easily for confined installation * Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled Standard Features • Standard stainless steel shafts • Standard polyethylene sprockets for less ice build-up with suspended hangers • Heater on top runner for less ice build-upTechnically speaking, it has a 15-T Rockwell hardness of about 80 (UHMW Hyfax hardness rating is R64). 4mm. Customer Reviews. UHMW Wear Guides, Wear guide rails. I’d advise wrapping it up and over the leading edge of your runners so there is no exposed end edge on the runner. . UHMW was 3/4" thick and I ripped in on a table saw to 1 1/2" wide. More on that in another post. Please take note: The UHMW runners included in this kit will only fit standard 3/4-inch and 3/8-inch track slots and will not fit the Ryobi table saw slots. 1 million to 100 million grams per mole, with an abrasion resistance that continues to improve as molecular weight increases. In remote aviation and bush flying, UHMW is beginning to replace steel and aluminum center skegs. Woodnet Forums › › Active › Woodworking Power Tools. ReplyUHMW runners into the miter slots even with the font of the saw. 1) price break down i had to buy 7 runners at 60" each (this is how they are shipped in 5 ft sections) the cost of those was $20. Pair with syringes or dispensing-gun cartridges to push adhesive out. Should last many years. Re: Sled build [Re: Family Trapper] #6206874 04/03/18 02:46 PM 04/03/18 02:46 PM: Joined: Sep 2013Next, make a pair of runners to fit the miter slots on your table saw, or use these UHMW (plastic) runners that I love to use for all my table saw sleds. Use 3M VHB tape (or similar double sided tape with acrylic adhesive). It's polyethylene, not nylon. Even a drawer about 12"w x 8"h x 23"l with a 7/8" cherry front, well loaded, slides very easily. UHMW is 10 times heavier than regular high density polyethylene. Originally I suspected a problem with either my plywood fence or the UHMW runner. 1. I bought some precision ground 3/4" stock and worked it until it fit the grooves. No big secret on the basic build. What distinguishes my boats from the rest: Real structural fiberglass and epoxy (not matt fiberglass and polyester resin) No keels 5 UHMW 2. I tried taking two additional 6" strips of conveyour belt and glued (roofing tar)/bolted it to the main sleigh piece of conveyour then screwed on some teflon strips to those 6" runners. Roughen both edges that will be bonded - the side of the plastic and the side of whatever you are going to adhere to it using 4-0 sandpaper. But if you build them yourself, guess it doesn't much matter in terms of savings. I tried it for a while as a rip fence, and found it wouldn't stay straight. Then screw the new runner to the sled. 🇺🇸 Ideal for sleds where repetitive sliding happens. B08G4ZBCSR. I have tried. First, I agree that 1 runner, if it's tight is fine but I prefer 2 runners. CA (crazy glue) or maybe gorilla glue. 2. UHMW is more rigid than LDPE and HDPE, and has better abrasion resistance than PTFE. (I saw you mention that material below. Then secure 2 short fractions a leftover UHMW runner in the dado with some great glue. You just make the runners fit into the slots. put double-sided carpet tape on the runners. 5. I have a one sided 'Norm style panel cutter'. HDPE has a coefficient of friction of around 0. The letters stand for “ultra-high molecular weight,” a type of plastic that is dense, tough, rigid, impervious to moisture and, most important, has a very low coefficient of friction. I can't use a regular miter gauge because the slot is too narrow, and it has tabs to keep the included gauge from lifting. This raises the runners just above the surface of the saw. The conical counters spread the UHMW Poly effectively, so you can adjust the fit of the runner easily just by tensioning the screws. Available for all sleds. ago. I have uhmw runners on my sled that are slightly undersized and shim them towards the blade for a snug fit. Do not glue UHMW or HDPE or any polyethylene, not effective. - Axis39 DARK BLUE: The DARK BLUE FCP Runner Plastic is a UHMW T88-2 product that is best suited for training, low snow conditions and coastal snow that may be very abrasive. ;0) Finally had reason for three sleds and we made good use of them. . 907-376-7111 Twenty Years of Serving You. The top 2 spaces are only 7" wide by 16" deep and around 10" tall. The bottoms of the runners are covered by a 1/2” thick sheet of ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMW). 99 CAD. I found that attaching the runners one side of the time makes for a great deal less binding. Wanting to add some UHMW to help with running pieces. You’ll want to drop in a few pennies or nickels to raise up the runners a bit above the surface. "Veggie burgers aren't bad if you put enough meat on them". For Sale. These runners are machined to fit the miter slot perfectly so I. Lower bin supports. Once there was snow/slush or pulling through the woods there wasn’t any difference, but it didn’t hurt either. Weight: 8. I put a couple of drops of CA glue on the UHMW runner, then set the sled down on it. . I think the UHMW on the bottom is definitely the way to go. RED: The RED FCP Runner Plastic is a UHMW base impregnated with Zardoz NotWax (a 100% fluoropolymer; the slipperiest ski lubricant in the world). UHMW bars are most commonly used as runners for crosscut sleds since they don't produce as much friction as wood does. 15 -0. 1. 2020-2022 Polaris General XP 4 1000 Ricochet 2-Piece Aluminum Rock Slider Skid Plates. I have drilled/tapped "many" 1/4-20 holes in 3/4" UHMW -and- in 3/8" UHMW sled runners. Check for. High-Strength Slippery UHMWPolyethylene Sheets and Bars. Air operated. One other thing to do with the MDF is drill a larger hole than needed for the screw. Then I raised the saw blade as high as it would go and slipped the sled over the blade and gently lowered in onto the new runners - an. More on that in another post. • Three UHMW runners for increased traction and stability on side slopes, while providing minimal drag • Increased cargo volume • Wide stance / lower center of gravity for increased stability • Internal straps to secure sled contents and prevent load shifts on varying terrainFulton DIY Table Saw Crosscut Sled Kit with 2 UHMW Bars 2 Aluminum Tracks 1 Knob and 1 Bolt along with Full Color HOW TO BUILD YOUR OWN Crosscut Sled Guide Booklet. Product Description & Details. How can such a simple concept be so difficult to execute?? I machined two runners out of mahogany to fit both miter slots. The UHMW runners are just the right length for my Dewalt job site table saw. More on that in another post. No big secret on the basic build. The shavings are a bit of a pain to clean up. I just used homemade, cut strips from a sheet rescued out of the scrap bin. I wanted a single-runner sled (cause my table saw only as one miter slot). Customer Reviews. I think the UHMW on the bottom is definitely the way to go. B08G4ZBCSR. Quantity. Prior to that I had built some with oak runners and UHMW runners and some sanding/scraping was needed to get them to work, but there wasn't much play. Bear in mind that with both, I screwed through the runner into the bottom of the sled, and if I drove the screws home too much they expanded both runners, causing binding. Buddies have similar sleds but just with 2 long runner type skis that are narrow and not very stable. blade and lower it onto the runners. Ideal for Table Saws, Router Table and Bandsaws (1 UHMW Bar) - Woodworking Project Kits - Amazon. Posted By: FL cracker in AK Re: Sled build - 04/03/18 06:46 PM. Cincinnati. I began by making a basic sled using ¾ inch baltic birch plywood. Jig bases made from it slide easily on machine tables. Place the base back on the table saw against the fence and aligned with the front of the saw and the UHMW runners. So in desperation I bought an Incra Miter 5000, rippped off the fence/protractor system as well as their adjustable steel runner and integrated them into my sled. jpg. Exceptionally high abrasion & impact resistance. Included In Package - Black UV stable virgin UHMWPE body - 1-4 Ft TRUE FLEX HITCH - 3 - 1" thick x 1. 31 density: uhmw=. More on that in another post. Just keep in mind the bigger it is, the harder it is to handle. 6 KB · Views: 0. Maybe buy the 1/2" ones, then next Spring, look at wear, if excessive, buy/install some UHMW 'runners' on the shoes. The letters stand for “ultra-high molecular weight,” a type of plastic that is dense, tough, rigid, impervious to moisture and, most important, has a very low coefficient of friction. ;0) Finally had reason for three sleds and we made good use of them. The runners ride in the slots on the top of your table saw to guide your box. Well as promised here is my update of uhmw plastic runners. EXTREMELY DURABLE – Ideal for constant repetitive use. It's tape or screws. T. A discussion of practical issues with ultra high molecular weight (UHMW) polyethylene drawer slides, and the all wood alternatives. What you need are T nuts with spikes on them that stick in the wood. After that, apply a few dabs of super glue and position the plywood base on top. Place the base back on the table saw against the fence and aligned with the front of the saw and the UHMW runners. UHMW, Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene is a thermoplastic engineering material that features amazing wear and corrosion resistance. A crosscut sled makes your table saw very versatile! If you want to find out how you can make one then this video is for you! The table saw crosscutting sled. It helps to get them in the slots easier. 11-18-2010, 11:21 AM. The bottoms of the runners are covered by a 1/2” thick sheet of ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMW). 20 static; 0. Then. If you really want to use plastic, you might try stiffer plastics like phenolic. The runner is 3/8 X 3/4 steel. Forum; Woodworking Topics; General Woodworking and Power Tools; Panel sled -maximum size? If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQFAQGrainger in Anchorage can get you scads of different types, thickness, sizes and colors of UHMW. UHMW plastic for sled runners, epoxy? sled runner Jump to Latest Follow 3692 Views 20 Replies 14 Participants Last post by KellyCraig , Mar 4, 2022 Bob Bengal. I'm looking for suggestions/advice regarding a jackpot I have got myself into. The Vespel pieces are placed at a 45 degree angle across the entire slider for constant contact and even wear. Originally posted by LinuxRandal. UHMW is known for its excellent abrasion resistance and low coefficient of friction. Both materials have a lower friction coefficient than many metals, such as stainless steel. Applications include UHMW wear strips , chain guides, packaging. I typically like using UHMW runners that are made of plastic because they always fit the miter slots perfectly and slide smooth as butter in a hot pan. Natural, Black & COLORS! • Belly Pan & Brush Bow - UHMW Custom Cut Sizes - also rod, tube & angle. UHMW's molecular weight ranges from 3. Thought I would put a little of the mods I made. My ts fence is all aluminum with slots for 1/4x20 nuts on top and on each side. ago. . Step 3: Make the Runners. I bought some UHMW plastic strips (3/4" x 3/8" x 24" long) to use in a miter sled. The runners on my sleds were machined so close to “perfect” fits—and in the. Made from specially blended UHMW-PE, Gatorback™ airboat bottom sheets are famous for great impact and wear resistance. can pick one up with hitch for $200-$300 at my local Cabelas depending upon the size. April 10, 2008. when that dries, it will be a secure fit for screws, especially small wood screws. After that, apply a few dabs of super glue and position the plywood base on top. Won't this lead to a lot of exposed nuts and and bolt ends sticking up from the bottom of the canoe for you to step on and catch gear on? Also seems like a very large number of holes to put in the hull below the waterline• Snowmobile Plastics - UHMW, windshield plastic, cowling repair, welding • Sled Plastics & Sleds - UHMW for building, repairing or runners - custom sleds • Freight Sleds Available • G. Jig bases made from it slide easily on machine tables. ). Mark for screw locations 2” in from each side and 2” from front and back of the top rectangle. You make dents in the side of the bars with a punch to increase the width, and use a file to reduce width. Natural, Black & COLORS! • Belly Pan & Brush Bow - UHMW Custom Cut Sizes - also rod, tube & angle. Drivel them in from top. Comes with screw on UHMW plastic runners and a wood step brake. We impregnate it at 7% making it best suited for any snow from 15 degrees F (-8 degrees C) and above. Heads obviously recessed but i dont remeber the specs on it. I attached one of the UHMW runners. If you are looking for more speed for your Kicksled, try our new UHMW Polyethylene Runners! Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE) has. You can get a "straight" quality glue edge rip (on your table saw). I can confirm that after many attempts with different adhesive products, the only thing that worked was countersinking and screwing them to the underside of the sled. Drop the runners in the tracks, put the sled over it, then just screw it down with #10 screws. Tablesaw Sled Runner Replacement? lift mechanic Member. 64. Sloped configuration carrying arms for “soft” discharge. Running Pug Construction** Read Full Story: jigs for band saws, table saws and other stationary machinery that utilize mitre slots is a common requirement. B08G4ZBCSR. Thought I would put a little of the mods I made. Due to the strength of the epoxy and fiberglass, I don't have to glass in keels, or seats, so. All the hitch hardware, bolts, nuts, washers, etc. ;0) Finally had reason for three sleds and we made good use of them. G. Specific Gravity. As for the UHMW runners, several guys are using them on the bottom of sleds much like a Quick Change (QC) Runner on a dog sled. The letters stand for “ultra-high molecular weight,” a type of plastic that is dense, tough, rigid, impervious to moisture and, most important, has a very low coefficient of friction. I made my sled out of Finnish plywood with maple runners. UHMW is 10 times heavier than regular high density polyethylene making it extremely durable for constant repetitive use. Bonding UHMW. Hey LabradorBoy, How do you find it tows in deeper snow with just the 3 "runners" covered in the slicker UHMW? I'm debating about using HDPE (cheaper, almost as slick) to cover those 3 runners same as you, and then also add 2 strips to the "recessed" areas. Good luck!. I use UHMW and steel runners. I built the hitch by bending a 1 pipe. It includes two UHMW runners that fit my saw’s T-tracks perfectly, two 12” T-tracks, a T-bolt and knob, and some screws. (2) A runner with no slop. . One other thing to do with the MDF is drill a larger hole than needed for the screw. Hold the side of the iron against the. UHMW polyethylene is the material you find in most factory-made jigs. Desde las barras UHMW hasta las pistas de aluminio anodizado, este kit está hecho para la tarea y por no mencionar hecho en los Estados Unidos. i built a platform in the back of my tundra and the drawers are on 5' slides. I bought a "sampler pack" of different thicknesses and just rip the 3/4" one into strips. Cost of smaller sled. The average price for HDPE is roughly $1. 82 products. Vespel is capable of withstanding extreme friction and heat environments. 5- Flip the sled over and do the other side. Sintuff 8 Pcs UHMW Runners Sled Miter Bars 3/4" x 3/8" x 17" for Jigs Fixtures or Miter Slots Table Saw Crosscut Sled, Predrilled Holes Fixture Bar with 40 Screws for Woodworking, Router Table. They are smooth as silk. UHMW Poly is the only thing I use for runners on jigs. The runners are made from UHMW (ultra-high molecular weight) plastic. Equipment 95 Kubota L3300DT W/FEL, 60" AgroTrend 3pt snow blower89 Arctic Cat 440 Panther Apr 20, 2021 132 60 28 Maine. 002 oversized taps from McM-C and by running the taps again and again thru the threads finally got the nuts to be able to be used as intended without too. The T882 product features an additive of microscopic glass beads which make this plastic 4 times more abrasive resistant than other UHMW plastics. UHMW bars are most commonly used as runners for crosscut sleds since they don't produce as much friction as wood does. (Project Photos 3, 4) Use the drill with wood screw drill and drive bit tool. I see its plasticity and tendency to spread under a screw as another asset - I mount mine with traditional profile wood screws, with matching countersink. Extend the life of your Snowdog sled with this complete set of UHMW replacement runners. Tablesaw Sled Runner Replacement? lift mechanic Member. UHMW PE stands for ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, but the PE is dropped off the end sometimes to make it shorter. The letters stand for “ultra-high molecular weight,” a type of plastic that is dense, tough, rigid, impervious to moisture and, most important, has a very low. If you are serious about sledding and getting the most value for your money, attachable UHMW Runners are the best option. UHMW Sled Runners. For wet slushy snow you need one kind of wax and for bitter cold you need another. 7-Handles. They work great in all conditions. 01% Hardness, Shore D . An advantage of a single runner is that changes in humidity that affect the dimension of the base will not cause the runners to bind in slots. Posts: 833 Threads: 0 Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Trout Creek, Montana. Products. High-Strength Slippery UHMWPolyethylene Sheets and Bars. Use 3M VHB tape (or similar double sided tape with acrylic adhesive). 5 in. Ideal for Table Saws, Router Table and Bandsaws (2 UHMW Bars) 1,081 50+ bought in past month Limited time deal $2630 List: $35. UHMW is also used in other cold weather applications requiring easy gliding and protection over snow and ice, such as wear pads for vehicle running boards, snowmobile skis, and even small aircraft ski bottom runners. UHMW plastic is ideal for reducing wear and friction due to its specialized internal lubrication, reducing maintenance costs and energy consumption while extending equipment life. Another advantage is that UHMW won’t expand or contract like wood does during drastic weather changes. table saw jig runners. 2. Besides chain guides we can also supply high quality double pitch roller chains, roller chain sprockets, gear reducers, shafting, and more! To get a quote on channel style C2080H chain guide or for additional information please. I originally had some maple for this, but I wanted to try using some new materials just to see if I could do it. It expands, it shrinks. Each bar is approximately 3/4" x 3/8" which fits most standard table saw slots. Fitzwho WKR. The bunks are 2x 4 on edge so I cut 3/4" off the upper edge. UHMW: (sometimes called poly or plastic) is best summed up by saying “it cuts like steel, but protects like rubber. Predrill the runner with holes that are slightly larger than the threads, and use a flat bottomed countersink so that the screw holds the runner to the sled, but there's still a little wiggle room. Runners also protect toboggan bed on road crossings. Vat scrapers; Bucket lips; Skid shoes & skid plates; Skid loaders & skidsteers; Runners & running. 01% Hardness, Shore D . Exact values tend to vary between manufacturer and grade, but UHMW is generally lower, with an average value of around 0. UHMW Plastic sled runners. Tape off one side and pour it full of epoxy. I’d advise wrapping it up and over the leading edge of your runners so there is no exposed end edge on the runner. IMHO they have the best adjustment mechanism for fitting the slots. My question is, wouldn't a poly finish and a good application of paste wax prevent wood. 04 hdpe=. new UHMW sled I really like the solid tongue for these heavy loads, I hardly noticed the sleds behind me. Reactions: 1 user W. FREE delivery Sat, Oct 28 on $35 of items shipped by Amazon. But those strips do little to nothing to stabilize the sled on glare ice. I would look hard at the newer oversize one man shacks though, they look really nice. Prepare the UHMW runners by drilling 9/64″ shank holes approximately every six inches and counter sink for #6 screws. Available for all sleds. always start up front. With wax, the need for different kinds of wax come with changing weather and snow conditions. 99 CAD. Big +1 --> With Stick on getting a straight edge. It is far superior to any other thermoplastic for wear resistance, and is by far one of densest. Our recommendation would change if you are overmolding or if. sled with whmw on the bottom and uhmw runners with steel runner add on if I plan to be on hardpack trail or road. 25 hdpe=. Features. So the idea is something like this, with the runners and a T-bolt in the track and then a block on top. Cross-cut on a table saw safely an accurately. The abrasion properties of UHMW will outlast steel in most applications, and unlike metals, it will not rust due to its high resistance to acids and alkalis. UHMW is a plastic material that's stronger and more abrasion-resistant than the stock HDPE runners. Straight grained oak, ash, or pecan runners have been in use for years in my shop. Simple crosscut sled matt cremona build a and up your table saw game multi function cross cut 3x3 custom with free plans diy woodworking you how to make runners the. Often people will put the runner in the tracks with double sided tape and drop the sled on top, then screw it in. With that done, our can complete the jig by movable a T-bolt into the T-track, and slips on the stop block and secure to a star knob. No big secret on the basic build. Another popular inexpensive option is qamutik. $39. Image plastics in anchorage and yes. They got dropped off on an island a few hours south, owner stayed on the boat to fish the 2 days. 2- length of Black Cold Weather Floating Rope. UHMW-Bottom. 0 out of 5 stars 2. 00. With the pink kid's sled, I had to use several bungee cords to hold the deer inside the sled. A cross-cut sled can be any size you want. ;0) Finally had reason for three sleds and we made good use of them. Jump to Latest Follow1/4 inch is definately enough to countersink screws. Scuff sand the UHMW first to enhance adhesion. Comes with cover, UHMW runners on sled, and custom tow bar. Izod. Another advantage is that UHMW won't expand or contract like wood does during drastic weather changes. Woodnet Forums › › Active › Woodworking Power Tools. And Seizmik’s plates are 4x thicker than the average OEM. What I used is all alu. 7- Attach 2 C-clamps on each bottom end Take 2 board, bats, sticks whatever, and lay them across the top side edges about 2' from the ends. 14. HDPE has a coefficient of friction of around 0. Thought I would put a little of the mods I made. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Brush Bows – Rods, Tubes & Angles; Dog Sled Parts – Custom & standard replacements. 227. Reply. While UHMW is almost bulletproof, accidents can happen when you’re off-roading. I blue them to reduce the rusting. The boat we retro-fitted used UHMW sheets in two pieces across the bottom cross ways, not long ways, and there is no sign of fatigue or failure after 20 years. Thought I would put a little of the mods I made. It was the standard runner material for dogsleds for years. . A good source for UHMW plastic is probably sitting on your kitchen counter. - Removable lid that becomes a separate sled. 64. And if it's going to be a one trick sled…. Use the 3/4" x 3/8" plastic strips to make sliding table jigs for your table saw, band saw or router table. The UHMW is much better IMO. For the runners, wood runners will eventually need replacing. UHMW Polyethylene. The 3/4" width is perfect for renewing the smooth run of worn wooden drawers. Well I finally made use of 3 of the 4 pieces of UHMW I purchased on the big UHMW steal of the century a few years ago. I do not want to file the cast iron slots of my table saw so I just want to reduce the with by may be . That said, I like the space of the 2 man. A versatile and precise miter sled. 20 kinetic) when used on steel. 14. This summer I started building a crosscut sled, and I recently came back to working on it only to find that it doesn't slide through anymore without…I bought the factory hyfax runners for my Frabill flip over and they were done after a season and a half. com is a good source. To begin, reduce one square piece are 3/4 premium plywood to use as the base. 64. Hold the side of the iron against the. Urethane epoxy stays slightly flexible when cured whereas most epoxy I have experimented with cures very brittle. 73 In Stock 2023-12-31. When one runner is under load, the other is unloaded, not sharing the load. My question is for straightness, is 1/2” thick enough? I made a jig that sits over the fence for when i use the dado or having the blade close to the fence but want the uhmw for every day sawing. The Arrowhead is made from 1/8″ UHMW. I figure…Advanced Search; Forum; Woodworking Topics; General Woodworking and Power Tools; Crosscut sled tricksCrosscut Sled Runners. Slick Durable Material Slides with Ease. 010". Runners & running Boards; Plow blades & wings; UHMW Physical Properties. Thought I would put a little of the mods I made. With a eyebolt/ring setup bolting both together. It's tape or screws. Runners also protect toboggan bed on road crossings. THe only limit your imagination, and your pocketbook. 1" = 25. jtf Well-known member. This is what works the best for me: use a dado stack to route an exactly . OR - simply use a drill bit sized for installing #8 FHWS. Fill and then mount in dispensing guns to apply adhesives to surfaces. Well I finally made use of 3 of the 4 pieces of UHMW I purchased on the big UHMW steal of the century a few years ago. wide runners UHMW straight up the bow White Ash everything Seats removable or slid according to the load. As a follow up to my post regarding shooting planes, Derek Cohen brought to my attention the #52 shooting board once made by Stanley. This Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) Polyethylene will outwear all other materials, including metals, nylons, urethanes, and fluoroplastics. (2) A runner with no slop. Then place a washer of the same diameter as the counter bore under the screw head. wide runners UHMW straight up the bow White Ash everything Seats removable or slid according to the load. The table saw cut. It has hickory runners and a metal hitch. What distinguishes my boats from the rest: Real structural fiberglass and epoxy (not matt fiberglass and polyester resin) No keels 5 UHMW 2. I really like this white sled. Also known as Tivar HPV. 25" Wide UHMW runners. These UHMW channels are designed to fit most bulk material handling chains. The non-stick surface is easy to clean. John White Shop Manager, FWW Magazine 1998-2006. If you do to batch output several hexagons and make them consistent, she need a jig. 01% Hardness, Shore D . Hold everything in place with a couple of clamps as in Fig02. ;0) Finally had reason for three sleds and we made good use of them. Once there was snow/slush or pulling through the woods there wasn’t any difference, but it didn’t hurt either.